Hi Cara! Thanks for the invitation for honest comments. I appreciate the intentions you outline here. And I make a distinction between beings and systems. I like to believe all beings are capable of redemption (except maybe Stephen Miller?). But not so all systems. I.C.E. was created on corrupt, rotten ideologies. The people within it are seriously deluded and are causing grave harm in its name... Always appreciate your posts! xox
wow Sebene, I'm so delighted to see you here and I am honored to hear your voice. My question is: Is hatred called for when the object of our hatred is not a being, but a system? If the entity is not capable of redemption, does hatred help? Even if the thing we are approaching is the hatred itself, if we approach it with a "fuck you," what is the impact?
Hatred is insidious, and always wants to find a way to take hold. It can tell us, “well if I can’t hate another person, I can hate a system, right?” But isn’t hatred still hatred? We can still draw a hard line, though, and in fact in my experience it's easier to hold a firm boundary my heart is not consumed with hatred.
Again, I'm not one to judge what the intentions are behind the "F*CK ICE" sign. All I can know is my own mind and my own intentions and how they impact me. I have to find the place in me that feels safe, that knows peace, and operate from that place of resource so that I’m not reproducing the very hatred that created ICE. I’m definitely not saying that I’ve mastered that, it's all too easy for me to find an excuse to hate, just like anyone else.
I really appreciate you, Sebene. Much respect and love.
I wrote something that didn’t go through but quickly I’ll say I feel there’s a difference between hatred and destruction. Some shit will need to be destroyed in order to create a better reality. Fierce compassion can include strong force. Also inside me. 💥❤️🍓
I so appreciate this post as well as the commentary. It mirrors my own experience of the last week. A local town council member recently made a F*ck Ice social media post and it has been held up and celebrated. All I was able to notice when I read it was how exclusionary (the poster also offered a F*ck You to anyone who supported Ice, taking the hurt to another level) the post was - the same thing you pointed to - and how much it hurt my own heart. Yes, wise action is needed in the face of harm. And the energy behind the action is the key, for me anyway. Love and mindfulness don't exclude. That exclusion is just more hate.
I'm also appreciating noticing the difference between approval and acceptance. I approve of nothing the current administration is doing, yet I have to accept it as what is happening now. Otherwise, I keep fueling aversion in my own heart and mind and have a harder time seeing how to act with love.
Thank you, Cara and to all in this community. These are the conversations that feel so important to have.
Wow. Two of my absolute favorite teachers on the same thread, Sebene and Cara. ♥️ Man, I really can see both sides of this. I can become so consumed by my self-righteous rage that I can barely think. The idea of humanizing the evil actors around us right now, let alone loving them, feels beyond me.
I tried to crack this recently, at age 77, with a tattoo that says Choose Love.
Many see it as a harmless bromide (maybe because it’s paired with a cat!). But I see it as my most daunting challenge now.
If after careful thought, and based on your own ethical principles, you find it unacceptable that people are being murdered in the streets for protesting and that people are being kidnapped and sent to detention centers without due process, including very small children, then righteous indignation is not only appropriate but required. But see: it took me a lot of words to say that. Fuck ice is shorter and more to the point. I think that's why people use it. I have always been annoyed by the title of an organization I used to work for: Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America. TL; DR.
Yeah, I appreciate the need for something that doesn't beat around the bush. I think a theme that comes up for people when I present a topic like this is the need for strong, forceful, direct action/language. I don't think that's the same as hatred.
The sense of self-righteousness I felt was an uncomfortable puffed up tension in myself based on the idea that I am somehow better than the people who wrote that sign, which didn't feel good nor did I find it helpful. But to believe that I can be above hatred, that I am more than hatred itself, that feels different to me. It feels easeful, trusting.
Thank you for this, Cara. And the Huck audio is just as powerful.
In my dharma mentorship conversation this week, we talked about anger and finding places where it’s not. Your words were a great addition to that conversation. #compassion
I do hear where you’re coming from and I do 💯 believe love is our north star. But I also believe as an activist that we need to call people in and out for the harm they cause. F*ck Ice to me, says that we absolutely reject a system that uses hate and violence as their Northstar. And we will not live in that world anymore. We choose love.
You bring up a really good point, which is that I, and we, can never really know the intentions behind someone's actions or words. All we can really know is what's in our own hearts. Thanks for this.
Hi Cara! Thanks for the invitation for honest comments. I appreciate the intentions you outline here. And I make a distinction between beings and systems. I like to believe all beings are capable of redemption (except maybe Stephen Miller?). But not so all systems. I.C.E. was created on corrupt, rotten ideologies. The people within it are seriously deluded and are causing grave harm in its name... Always appreciate your posts! xox
wow Sebene, I'm so delighted to see you here and I am honored to hear your voice. My question is: Is hatred called for when the object of our hatred is not a being, but a system? If the entity is not capable of redemption, does hatred help? Even if the thing we are approaching is the hatred itself, if we approach it with a "fuck you," what is the impact?
Hatred is insidious, and always wants to find a way to take hold. It can tell us, “well if I can’t hate another person, I can hate a system, right?” But isn’t hatred still hatred? We can still draw a hard line, though, and in fact in my experience it's easier to hold a firm boundary my heart is not consumed with hatred.
Again, I'm not one to judge what the intentions are behind the "F*CK ICE" sign. All I can know is my own mind and my own intentions and how they impact me. I have to find the place in me that feels safe, that knows peace, and operate from that place of resource so that I’m not reproducing the very hatred that created ICE. I’m definitely not saying that I’ve mastered that, it's all too easy for me to find an excuse to hate, just like anyone else.
I really appreciate you, Sebene. Much respect and love.
I wrote something that didn’t go through but quickly I’ll say I feel there’s a difference between hatred and destruction. Some shit will need to be destroyed in order to create a better reality. Fierce compassion can include strong force. Also inside me. 💥❤️🍓
I agree. Force and hatred should not be conflated.
Great! Let’s destroy fucking I.C.E.!!!
I so appreciate this post as well as the commentary. It mirrors my own experience of the last week. A local town council member recently made a F*ck Ice social media post and it has been held up and celebrated. All I was able to notice when I read it was how exclusionary (the poster also offered a F*ck You to anyone who supported Ice, taking the hurt to another level) the post was - the same thing you pointed to - and how much it hurt my own heart. Yes, wise action is needed in the face of harm. And the energy behind the action is the key, for me anyway. Love and mindfulness don't exclude. That exclusion is just more hate.
I'm also appreciating noticing the difference between approval and acceptance. I approve of nothing the current administration is doing, yet I have to accept it as what is happening now. Otherwise, I keep fueling aversion in my own heart and mind and have a harder time seeing how to act with love.
Thank you, Cara and to all in this community. These are the conversations that feel so important to have.
that's exactly what trying to get at at. Thanks Bonnie for being pithier than I was in the post :)
Beautifully said, Cara. Thank you for your message of love.
❤️❤️❤️
Thank you, Cara. I’ve been considering subscribing for a while. This post clinched it. Much gratitude from one of your newest subscribers ❤️🙏
Thanks Janet, that's so awesome :)
Wow. Two of my absolute favorite teachers on the same thread, Sebene and Cara. ♥️ Man, I really can see both sides of this. I can become so consumed by my self-righteous rage that I can barely think. The idea of humanizing the evil actors around us right now, let alone loving them, feels beyond me.
I tried to crack this recently, at age 77, with a tattoo that says Choose Love.
Many see it as a harmless bromide (maybe because it’s paired with a cat!). But I see it as my most daunting challenge now.
If after careful thought, and based on your own ethical principles, you find it unacceptable that people are being murdered in the streets for protesting and that people are being kidnapped and sent to detention centers without due process, including very small children, then righteous indignation is not only appropriate but required. But see: it took me a lot of words to say that. Fuck ice is shorter and more to the point. I think that's why people use it. I have always been annoyed by the title of an organization I used to work for: Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America. TL; DR.
Righteous indignation is ok.
Yeah, I appreciate the need for something that doesn't beat around the bush. I think a theme that comes up for people when I present a topic like this is the need for strong, forceful, direct action/language. I don't think that's the same as hatred.
The sense of self-righteousness I felt was an uncomfortable puffed up tension in myself based on the idea that I am somehow better than the people who wrote that sign, which didn't feel good nor did I find it helpful. But to believe that I can be above hatred, that I am more than hatred itself, that feels different to me. It feels easeful, trusting.
Thank you for this, Cara. And the Huck audio is just as powerful.
In my dharma mentorship conversation this week, we talked about anger and finding places where it’s not. Your words were a great addition to that conversation. #compassion
I do hear where you’re coming from and I do 💯 believe love is our north star. But I also believe as an activist that we need to call people in and out for the harm they cause. F*ck Ice to me, says that we absolutely reject a system that uses hate and violence as their Northstar. And we will not live in that world anymore. We choose love.
Thank you for being awesome.
You bring up a really good point, which is that I, and we, can never really know the intentions behind someone's actions or words. All we can really know is what's in our own hearts. Thanks for this.